charge vs phantom

[RiMA]

I am looking at the 2004 charge vs the phantom in a 6.2 size…..any comments on which way to go

[Robert Goyen]

Hi Rima,

I have been using both these sails a lot. Which one you should get depends on what type of sailing you will be doing. Personally I love the Phantom it is powerful and sooooo stable. I have been using it in Waves and just for blasting.
However one of our team riders in Australia (Jamie Cobill) still loves the Charge.
Sorry I can't suggest either way, all I can say is they are both great sails. If you want a bit more power, head for the Phantom.
I think this sail is great and I know Patrice had great success on it in Sylt.

Regards,

Robert Goyen
Aerotech

[Marse]

Hello
A couple other areas to consider when comparing the Charge and Phantom are the following. The Charge will have a softer feel for down-the-line wave sailing and the Phantom will offer more stability so it crosses over to flat water better. Most freestyle sailors will also prefer the Charge. Also keep in mind that the Phantom will have more low end than any wave sail I have run across so you may have to go a little smaller when mixing it in with other sails in a quiver.

Best Regards
Steve Gottlieb
Aerotech

[Too Fat]

I have the charge 7.0 now. It gets me going in about avg 14 mph with a 110 ltr freestyle board. What do you suppose the 7.4 Phantom will do for me? Will it handle as well? Worse? What are the trade-offs?

[Koen B-12]

Rima,

In what conditions do you want to use the sail, on what board an what is your weight? Depending upon your answers it is Phantom or Charge

[Too Fat]

Sail all types of water. And, if you haven't guessed, I am too fat. 100 kgs and pumping.

[Steve]

Hello:

The 7.4 Phantom and the 7.0 Charge are very different sails. The 7.4 Phantom has a longer boom and more seam shape than the 7.0 Charge. The Phantom will cross over to flat water better for everything but freestyle. With six battens the Phantom has a more stable feel but it also feels stiffer and has slightly more back hand pressure. The larger sizes benefit from an adjustable outhaul which really increases the range.

Best Regards;
Steve Gottlieb
Aerotech Sails

[Unregistered]

The Phantom rip in wave surfing and jumping !!

[WARDOG]

We've been using the bigger Charges for a couple of years for light air wavesailing on the U.S. West Coast...6.6m2 and 7.0m2...
in side-on and side-off conditions...backside and down the line...

http://www.surfingsports.com/images/wardog_charge1.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/wardog_charge2.jpg

http://www.surfingsports.com/images/wardog_lightair_wave1.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/wardog_lightair_wave2.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/wardog_lightair_wave3.jpg

http://surfingsports.com/images/evo92_brian_6.6_cali.jpg
http://surfingsports.com/images/evo92_brian2_6.6_cali.jpg

http://surfingsports.com/images/will_v_atr.jpg
http://surfingsports.com/images/will_v_atr2.jpg
http://surfingsports.com/images/will_v_atr3.jpg

I have had a couple of sessions on the '04 6.8m2 Phantom now...paired up with the '04 Exocet O-Wave II 105 and my 9.75" WARDOG Wave and new 10" FreeWeed fins...formulated for light air wavesailing...

http://www.surfingsports.com/product.asp?prod=taf_wdwave975-g

Very light feeling...responsive ...crisp...
I didn't feel any more back hand pressure than the 6.6m2 Charge...rigged on Powerex 460 RDM...
More stable over-powered...

Maybe a bit redundant in larger sizes (over 6m2) with Charge in light air wavesailing, but most likely better in flat water because of low end and stability...only a couple of sessions so far...

http://www.surfingsports.com/images/aerotech_68_phantom.jpg

http://www.surfingsports.com/images/exocet_105_light_air.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/exocet_105_light_air1.jpg
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/exocet_105_light_air2.jpg

I drove the new 10" WARDOG FreeWeed through the thickest kelp paddies I could find...didn't even feel them:
http://www.surfingsports.com/images/exocet_105_freeweed_10.jpg

http://www.surfingsports.com/images/wardog_freeweed_10_bases.jpg

http://www.surfingsports.com/images/wardog_freeweed_10_abase.jpg

http://www.surfingsports.com/images/wardog_freeweed_10_tuttle.jpg

http://www.surfingsports.com/images/wardog_freeweed_10_powerbox.jpg

Warm winds...{:~)

w.....

[Too Fat]

Seems like more and more people are looking for a sail with a larger range, and they are willing to do more adjusting to make it happen. Do you think there's a main-streaming of adjustable outhauls about to happen? Which one is the best? I've seen the cam cleats sieze up in sal****er in short order. Will the old formula style ones be the answer for everyone? I've gotten used to mine to the point where I don't think about it much. I just use it without even noticing it. Sure helps with formula. Maybe I'm the right type of person for Phantoms.

[Steve]

Hi Too Fat:

Range in sails is becoming a bigger issue. And the best way to increase range is with the use of an adjustable outhual. For larger sails the clam cleat system seems to work best for most people as it offers lots of range and the ability to add mechanical advantage. With sails like the Phantom which have tremendous range based on outhual adjustment, having an on the fly adjustable system becomes important. Most wave sailors do not want bulky cleats so a buckle and webbing system is often the call. Jason Voss has been using a one sided system for the last few years on his wave sails.

Best Regards:
Steve Gottlieb
Aerotech Sails

[Too Fat]

Those types of cleats, with the webbing and strap, get salt crusty then fail pretty rapidly in my humble opinion. Is there another style cam-cleat that won't deteriorate so? Twould be good to know.

[Jason Voss]

hey too fat,

To get the most life out of your adjustable outhaul system try this:

If you are using the plastic "Cam Cleat" system, buy a few feet of soft oversized line from your local dealer or west marine. I don't recall the diameter. Bring the Cam Cleat with you and buy the largest one that fits in the cleat. This system is a must (on both sides of the boom) for people on the race course. When racing, the extra purchase you can add to the system will come in handy when overpower and/or in traffic. If you aren't on the race course and are looking for system durability, use this system on your nonwaveriding boom arm. One boom arm is plenty unless you take really long runs.

If you're looking out for your Sail & Board durability over the system's durability, use the webbing (strap) system. Remember to put it on the nonwaveriding side of your boom. (you'll thank me later during bottom turns) This system does wear out a bit faster but your sails won't end up with rub marks and it's a lot less bulky on the boom. "The cost of admision is worth it" when you look at the possibility of being all thumbs when reaching back (on the boom) for an entry to a jibe or worse yet, a bottom turn. The webbing is slim enough to always give you a decent grip on the boom. To slow down the crusting up (in salt water) of the spring loaded clips, run the strap on the under side of the boom arm. If this doesn't cut it, and you can remember,,, pour some of your drinking water on the spring clips at the end of the day. Sometimes people find that this angle of adjustment doesn't work for them. If this is the case, then I would go with the plastic "Cam Cleat" system mentioned above.

waiting for more wind in the SF Bay area,

Jason Voss, US - 8

www.JRVwindsurfing.com
www.windsurfinginstruction.com
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www.UltraNectar.com
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[Too Fat]

I thought I read somewhere that the strap variety had a cam cleat. The formula style has a jamb cleat, no? Just trying to solidify the lingo here folks. Hadn't thought about dowsing the cam cleat with a shot of drinking water at the end of the day. Good idea, Jason, thanks for the tips.

[John I]

Sailed the Ph 7.4 and 6.8 during the week some over in the gulf. Very nice sails. They were alot more forgiving than my initial impression. But, I had only tried the 6.2 on a skinny mast before on a pretty juicy day by comparison. I like them both alot. I look forward to many more days to dial them in.

The 7.4 balances well on the Original Wave 105. One day I got the primo direction for side off winds. Too bad it was on the gulf. Wave rides were really brief. Lucky cutback appeared on 1-12 waves or so. But at least I got the idea of how it handles for the right kind of days to really wave bash. Cheers.