Sticky cam in Saber

[Wal]

Hi folks,

I have a 2002/3 8.5 Saber that I have a couple of issues with.

1) The cam on the batten below the boom will not rotate without kicking it. This is a bit of a nusiance particularly when waterstarting. Is there a fix for this? I had a look at the cam and I was thinking that maybe I should glue a couple of bits of flat stiff something over those little reinforcing ribs inside the cam to stop the cam over-rotating. What do you recommend?

2) The sail goes backhanded when I pull a lot of outhaul. It seems a bit odd to me that it should do this as I havn't noticed this happening in my other sails that I use with an adjustable outhaul.(but thats not a lot of sails). I assume that the draft is moving back with the outhaul. I am wondering if longer/stiffer tube battens would fix this, or, If this is just an issue typical of all big sails with AOs? What accommodations do people usually make?

[Unregistered]

Hey, I've got a 03' saber with the same problems....It actually caused the batten to break. Any ideas on how to remedy to problems would be greatly appreciated.

[Steve]

Hi Wal:

On some of the 2003 Saber sails I have seen where the cams can be difficult to rotate. Fortunately there is an easy solution. Start out by removing the camber from the sail.Then take a small amount of ding stick which is an epoxy with filler in it and apply it to the inside of the camber. You should apply it where the batten touches on inside of the camber right where the grooves are. You should build this material up about 2 to 3 mm thick and about 2 cm wide on both sides inside the camber. This will soften the rotation and keep the camber from over-rotating.
As far as the other problem with the sail getting back handed I would recommend increasing downhaul tension. Whenever you make significant changes in outhaul tension downhaul will have to be increased or the leech will load up and increase back hand pressure. I hope these tips solve your problems, let me know how it goes.

Steve

[John I]

One brief thought about larger sails. When I use one with an adjustable outhaul, I generally keep my downhaul set at nearly the maximum. That way the draft stays stable no matter what the outhaul setting. The little low end power lost by doing this I make up for by rigging a meter bigger.

[Tom Ingram]

Steve - does the ding stick in cam thing work for the cam below the boom on the VMG or is it better to just leave it alone? Thanks.

[Steve]

Hi Tom:

Filling the inside of a camber will soften rotation on most cambers. But keep in mind what you are doing is softening the leading edge by doing this. In a race sail I will live with a bottom cam that sticks sometimes. It is very important that the top cams rotate through on their own as these cannot be kicked. For a recreational sailor filling the cams on a race sail is not a bad idea as it is certainly more fun to tack and gybe with full camber rotation.

[Wal]

Thanks Steve,

I got my ding stick out and filled the cam as you suggested. I was conservative with the thickness of the fill. I built it up to almost 1mm above the ribs inside the cam and made it nice and flat with the side of a knife. The cam now almost rotates by itself. I may add a bit more to the fill or try taping something around the end of the batten, or maybe I'll just leave it as it is. Its a lot better than it was and may work adequately for waterstarts as it is.

Extra downhaul, the answer to all the worlds problems and seems to be the answer to the problem of draft movement with outhaul. However I have yet to test it in a good blow. I had been downhauling using the looseness in the second top panel as a guide. With other sails I have found that the looseness in this panel should extend about half way across the panel and I had been downhauling the Saber acordingly. However I have found that it works better if this looseness extends 2/3 to 3/4 across the panel. So there you go.

Thanks folks.

Wal

[Unregistered]

Hi Guys

I also have an 03 Saber 8.5
I had noticed the bottom cam stick a little also, although it has not bothered me greatly.
I am concerned however that it will eventually snap the associated batten, so i thinks i may try your remedy.
I am un familiar with 'Ding Stick' is this a yankee thing?
I live on the eastcaost of OZ, are these things available here and where?, do the have the same name?

Thanks in advance.
DavMen


Great sail by the way!

[Steve]

Hi Davmen:

Ding stick is an epoxy roll that has epoxy on the outside with hardener on the inside. You just slice a chunk off and knead it. It hardens in about 15 minutes. works like a 2 part epoxy with some filler in it. I would think you could buy it in AUS. as they sell it in most places I have been.

Best Regards:
Steve

[Robert Goyen]

Hi Davmen,

You should be able to buy Dingstick at your local Windsurfing Shop any where on the East Coast. If not you can also pick it up from Hard Ware stores everywhere.

If you have any problems let me know where you are on the East Coast and I will find a shop for you.

Regards,


Robert Goyen
Aerotech

[Unregistered]

Well DAMN and BLAST... The batten tip is now broken. bugger bugger bugger. Well it couldn't have been the filling of the cam that did it so it must have been ready to break from previous under downhauling and it broke.

I removed the batten. Now my problem is how do I remove the batten tip from the batten pocket? Its just the very tip and it feels like it is fully contained in the stiff bit of webbing at the end of the pocket that fits into the cam'.

I was thinking it may be feasable to leave it there and slide a new batten in beside it. The broken end of the batten is pretty well splintered. Is it feasable to bind it all together with superglue and tidy up the end with a chisel, then extend the batten from the other end by putting a bit of spacer in the adjuster? What do you think?

Wal

[Steve]

Hi Wal:

Sorry about the problem with the batten. You will have to get the old tip out of there. Normally the old tip will not slide out of the pocket beause once they break they are usually badly splintered. If this is the case the batten pocket tip will have to be opened up. The best way to do this is to remove the camber and open up the stiching about 2cm from the tip of the batten pocket. Then pull the old tip out with a needle nose plier. If you want to you can hand sew the pocket closed but normally the camber will retain the batten just fine. Hope this helps.

Best Regards:
Steve

[Wal]

I have some bits and pieces from some old Aerotech Pro Race sails. I was hoping to replace the broken tip (rod stock) with the corresponding part from a Pro Race batten.

I was able to twist apart a Pro Race batten but the Saber batten wont budge. I wonder if the bits are glued together and if so is the glue cyanoacrylate (superglue) and if so is it feasable to squirt some superglue release agent in the joint to get them apart ?

I guess the proper question is how can I get these battens apart?

Wal

[John I]

I've done a few myself. Do you have access to a vice, Wal? Put the tube part of your batten in the jaws, gently tighten. Not too hard, obviuosly, as the tubes could collapse. Use pliers on the solid batten tip. Twist and pull. Good idea to salvadge bits off your old sails. Compare batten tip thickness. Millimeters effect performance through subtle changes in shaping. Grind to match.